He is also seeing the benefit of working toward long-term goals in Taekwondo. It takes quite a while to learn all the skills necessary to get to the next belt–and it’s amazing all of the things he knows how to do at his young age. Now when he gets frustrated and wants to give up on something, I sometimes remind him that TKD was hard at first, but he practiced and improved, and now he’s a purple belt. That feels good, all of that hard work! He can directly relate that positive experience from the past to the new, hard thing, and often he works at his goal with new dedication.

But he would not have been able to grasp the idea of working hard to make incremental improvements to achieve a long-term goal at Sammy’s age. This is an idea he is only just beginning to truly grasp at 7.5.

The only thing I can think to do at this point is help him understand things he can do–ask for help, properly vent his frustrations–and remind him of the positives he’s experienced as a result of times when he was persistent. The rest is up to him, to understand and integrate this idea. If he makes mistakes along the way, then I’d rather he make them when he’s young and can learn from them (hopefully) and before the consequences are too dire. But he may make mistakes as an adult, too–maybe quitting a project or a job before he should have, and then realizing later that it was a mistake. If he does, well, I’m sure he’ll learn from those mistakes at that time, too.

My own parents, unlike yours, had too many rules for too long. I well remember feeling stifled by that. However, I didn’t want to be completely hands-off either, because kids do need limits. So I tried to figure out where that tricky line is–and I make mistakes about where to draw that line all the time, just ask my children. So in a case where someone by temperament is unlikely to see the long-term consequences of their actions/inactions, I will, at the very least, talk to them about what I see and why it’s important. Who knows? It’s even possible they’ll hear what I have to say!

Your comment did clarify something, although I’m not sure if it is what Jenn meant. (Jenn?) But I 100% agree with this:
“..if you don’t use rewards and instead wait until the motivation comes from the child naturally, you get this extra benefit of it being a stronger value association.”
And I feel that it would be great to do it for everything if nothing was sacrificed, but yes indeed, I do not trust that the motivation will be there. Maybe it is just the way Sammy is, or maybe it is that I don’t wait long enough for her to come to things on her own. One thing I could do to test this is to pick some new skill that Sammy is balking at and that is not time-sensitive in any way, and just wait. Of course, I’ve done this before. Crawling (never happened), walking (7-9 months later than average), potty training (I waited as long as I could before outside forces intervened), first “words,” going down a waterslide, and so many more things came late for Sammy. Mostly, I’ve tried to let her show me when she was ready. But I think about doing that into her later childhood and it just seems wrong.

It’s possible that I’m conflating Jenn’s method with what my parents did in an inappropriate way. My parents were so laissez faire that I never learned how to work hard at anything. I was NOT motivated by anything, and nobody ever showed me why I should be. I had absolutely no persistence and didn’t want to try anything that didn’t come easily to me. Part of that might be my character, but I was not helped by my parents. And then I see Sammy, who is showing the same tendencies, and I think that I really need to teach her. Not teach her the skills, but about effort.

I have an idea. I’m going to make a list of everything I can think of where I have seen Sammy putting forth effort or showing persistence. That will show me if I my concern is objective or if it is just my fears based on my own childhood.

Thanks!

I’ve been lately trying to make a distinction in my parenting posts, because of this fact. I am trying to derive my parenting principles from my principles as an Objectivist (all mistakes are mine, of course). So, given the fact that I’m trying to live my life as an Objectivist, and so is my husband, and that we value raising our kids so that they can learn the virtues we think are essential for happiness, given those things–I have found the tools, techniques, strategies found in the parenting books by those authors in the “positive discipline” realm to be the most compatible with my parenting philosophy.

I don’t think that those books are without value even though those authors would certainly not agree with me on certain philosophical topics–most would certainly disagree with us about self-interest/altruism, for example. What I’m attempting to do is articulate MY parenting principles (which I hope are compatible with the philosophy I’ve chosen to live my life by), and then demonstrate that HERE is a set of tools that are generally compatible with that philosophy that help me guide my kids in such a way that A.) I am acting virtuously (which models that for the kids), and B.) that my kids have a chance to develop their character in accordance with the virtues.

I hope that makes sense. )

Also, there is definitely some work to be done in the definition realm, but I think there are possibly some differing premises that might be at the base of our disagreement. Keith hit pretty close to this when he suggested that maybe the difference is one of “confidence in intrinsic enjoyment” of the child. Not to be confused with the Waldorf school of thought, as Travis pointed out. Kids NEED external guidance, and indeed sometimes they NEED a parent to step in and physically prevent them from doing something harmful to themselves or others (by this I mean restraint, not spanking or hitting). I think we’re all in agreement on this, that kids need guidance and that the parent’s role is to provide it.

The tricky part is deciding when and how to get involved. My general principle is to wait and see IF the kid shows me he needs this type of intervention. When there is no time to “wait and see” and things look dire, I’ll step in first and ask questions later. But those situations are not the norm. I’d rather “wait and see” and give the kid a chance to figure out the situation and/or correct it without my involvement if that’s at all possible. If I need to get involved, then I try to keep it to the minimum necessary.

As someone mentioned, we’re all pretty “close” to each other in how we parent. But it’s the things that distinguish us that I think are so important to identify and figure out–which is the benefit of such discussions! (yay!)